Talk:Jack Ma

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Politician?

How exactly did Ma end up getting classified as a politician? Is there any RS that can back this up? There seems to be a sockpuppeteer who repeatedly adds this occupation in the lede and infobox. Slightlymad (talk ⋅ contribs) 05:00, 18 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It might be a misinterpretation of his being a member of the CCP. If we can find a WP:RS which says he has a leadership position within the CCP then 'politician’ seems acceptable, if he’s just a member then no I don’t think he should be labeled a politician (we already have CCP down as his party affiliation anyway). Horse Eye Jack (talk) 16:04, 18 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The Business Insider source backing the CCP claim states that he's only a member, that's it. It's not really this site's job to interpret anything from what has been reported exclusively. Slightlymad (talk ⋅ contribs) 04:14, 19 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

As long as he’s only a member then he’s not a politician, both the IP and CaradhrasAiguo are claiming he’s a delegate to the National People's Congress which would make him a politician. I followed the IP here from Ma Huateng where they made an identical edit just after editing here. Ma Huateng is a delegate to the National People's Congress, Jack Ma doesnt appear to be though... He’s heavily involved with the National People's Congress but I see indication he’s ever been a delegate. Horse Eye Jack (talk) 17:42, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

We did not label Andrew Lloyd Webber, a former House of Lords member who is known primarily for his musical work, despite RS noting his absence from an Oct 2015 vote on fiscal legislation, thus indicating a controversy. Ma should not be any different. Indeed RS referring to him as a politician are lacking, as is for Webber. When only excluding Wikipedia from the search results for Ma, the pages that refer to him as a politican are effectively WP:MIRRORs, which is unacceptable. CaradhrasAiguo (leave language) 17:24, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

CaradhrasAiguo your edit summaries are misleading. Don’t continue content disputes and cover it up by pretending to just do wikignome tasks. Horse Eye Jack (talk) 17:26, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Address the point by indicating agreement (or flaws in my reasoning) or producing a RS with a direct reference to Ma being a politician and refrain from commenting on other editors. CaradhrasAiguo (leave language) 17:30, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Your point confuses me as does the IP’s, I don’t see any indication that he’s a delegate to the National People's Congress. You linked “refrain from commenting on other editors” to WP:NPA btw, per WP:ASPERSIONS you need to substantiate your claim that I’ve made a personal attack against you. The specific edit summaries I feel are misleading are [1] and [2]. Horse Eye Jack (talk) 17:38, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I assumed the IP was more knowledgeable than they actually are, as their edits elsewhere on Chinese topics are competent, and was fooled by their edit summary.

right above, you made a reference to editor conduct, which article talk pages aren't the place for. Now, it would be better for you to get back on point. CaradhrasAiguo (leave language) 17:53, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It looks like we both made the mistake of taking the IP at face value, if he’s never been a delegate to the National People's Congress then my original opinion stands and I would not support labeling him a politician. I will digress but please be aware of your edit summaries, I’m far from the first to have warned you over them. Horse Eye Jack (talk) 18:01, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Also wow, the original discussion happened *exactly* a year ago... I thought it happened yesterday and was astounded that I forgot about it, just caught the “2019.” Horse Eye Jack (talk) 18:05, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Then you think the same applies to Ma Huateng, where RS making the direct description are scant? My Google "authoritative box" search (which bolds what the engine considers answers to search terms / questions) is in fact a Wikipedia mirror. CaradhrasAiguo (leave language) 19:45, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Would you accept legislator instead of politician? Generally all legislators are regarded as politicians but I guess since the National People's Congress is a rubber-stamp organization instead of a legitimate legislature you could have an argument... But its an argument that would be based on the illegitimacy of the Chinese parliamentary system which I’m not sure you want to do. Horse Eye Jack (talk) 19:53, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, even though, again, to my knowledge of the revision histories, Webber was never described even as a legislator, and the UK House of Lords can only delay legislation from the Commons. CaradhrasAiguo (leave language) 20:07, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I’m confused by what Webber has to do with anything... We mention his peerage in the lead and he’s one of tens of thousands of legislators on wikipedia. Why this one as the archetype? Horse Eye Jack (talk) 20:14, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Because he is the most prominent example (formerly) in that body I can think of who is not a career politician? CaradhrasAiguo (leave language) 20:22, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Isn't the House of Commons the equivalent body to the National People's Congress not the House of Lords? (as a Socialist Republic China has no politically ennobled aristocracy of any kind) Horse Eye Jack (talk) 20:25, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I note that by this argument Donald Trump isn’t a politician either. Horse Eye Jack (talk) 20:27, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That is a rather far-fetched slippery slope based on my awkward usage of the term "career politician", which certainly applies to many U.S. members of Congress, even those I agree with. At the beginning of Jun 2015, before he launched his 2016 POTUS campaign, Trump was not described here as a politician. The "politician" appellation was added sometime during that campaign. CaradhrasAiguo (leave language) 20:36, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I’m interested in where you draw the line between professional politicians and non-professional politicians. Also why a non-professional politician wouldn’t still be a politician. Horse Eye Jack (talk) 20:54, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not immediately finding any WP:RS characterizing Jack Ma as a legislator. Rolf H Nelson (talk) 01:35, 22 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Is "Yun" part of his first or last name?

Apokrif (talk) 17:27, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It's his first name. His name is really confusingly presented in the lead; I've never seen another East Asian person whose name has been presented this way (i.e. English first name -> surname -> East Asian first name). It's almost like "Jack" Ma Yun. This wording seems to be used by some English-lang news sources [3][4], but not sure how much Wikipedia has influenced this. 104.232.119.107 (talk) 14:02, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a better photo of Ma?

His face appears somewhat distorted in the infobox photo. Is there a better alternative? ERBuermann (talk) 14:31, 7 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I concur on this, the photo on this article is weird compared to much of the other public photos of Ma. Gamma1138 (talk) 07:17, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Little context

Ant group was criticised for wanting to have moral hazard and risk destabilising the economy by making more and more riskier loans without taking all the risk for themselves. About what happened to US banks in 2008. Ma was criticised for being greedy yet such context appears absent here. But it shouldn't. The reason why Ma criticised regulations was because he wanted more profit at less risk for his company and the gov was beginning to tighten the rules.(Ant has been widely criticised for predatory lending in recent years. The two per cent leverage it held on its books created moral hazard to incentivise making ever riskier loans to people unable to pay them back.) [5]ParkHyeon-Joo (talk) 00:57, 7 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Josh Skills

Talking on Josh Skills @joshskills Lesson 64 103.214.137.17 (talk) 15:11, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Jack Mac101@joshskills 103.214.137.17 (talk) 15:13, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Return to China?

I think he may have returned to China after the conclusion of his time in Japan, and founded a new startup. I'm a bit lazy to dig into it and can't read a Japan Times article behind a paywall, but if someone can add the info that'd be appreciated. 104.232.119.107 (talk) 13:57, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

help

hello l am writing from turkey 🇹🇷🇹🇷🇹🇷🇹🇷 l am an earthguake victim and l need your help €100,000 euros 🙏🥰 Trrustem (talk) 07:30, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]